Angry with God?
I cut and paste a question posted in Elder Yong's forum which I participated in. This is an excerpt email of a child's frustration against God and my reply below. Although outwardly most people would not talk this way, yet inwardly many of us fret and vent against God just like this kid. This is not meant to answer the kid directly since he is a stranger to me and it is another stranger who asked the question on how to help this kid. My reply is more to give a perspective of things in general. I thought it would be helpful to put this up here.
Forum Question:
This child posted me a question when I shared God' love with him. Pls advise how should I reply.
"what has god done for me why should i care about him? he keeps screwing my life up, my life is a compleat shit hole because of him he does me no good he keeps sending bad things my way. and even if he isnnt giving me all the bad stuff in my life then why isnt he stopping it? god has a master plan for me eh? well then how is that giving us free will? huh? explain that to me.
god he is a bastard who doesnt care for me thats why i gave up on him a long time ago. thats why im burning this bible i will sen you some good pics of the buring peice of shit that should have never been printed ever! i mean ever! it does noting but brain wash the gulible masses. its just a way to keep us out of trouble. how can you honestly belive in this man. well? can you give me any answerrs to my questions or are you just going to keep telling me that he loves me and that im rebelling against him? could you please tell me why god cares about us? there are so many people in this world he seams to be far more interested with famous people giving them all they need why cant he just clear the unnoticed peoples lives up a bit? well when you have answers to my questions please feel free to email me back."
My Reply:
Hopefully this frustrated child will learn to ask questions about God in a more reverent way. I will not assume much on his motivation and condition because I don't know him personally so I will just try to address the issues he raised.
Basically human confusion comes because we have no wisdom to link all the phenomena we see in this world. We have a concept of love, goodness, justice, basically, perfection... but it is a world full of injustice and predicament. And being human with personality, we also feel affected by the things that affect us directly and often times see things in isolation. "Why is my life so terrible? Why didn't God stop it since He can?" "Why is the rich and greedy having all they want and I'm struggling this way?" and leading on to, "Does God care?!" so "Please give me an answer to all these perplexities and don't just avoid the difficulties and say I am rebelling against Him!"
Ultimately, phenomena (things that happen/facts we observe) in their totality are just reflection of the Eternal Truth. It's just a matter of whether we have the wisdom to see the meaning behind them or not. If we can see, we encounter and enjoy the Truth. If we cannot see, things are broken up in pieces and perplexing to us. Understanding God's Will gives us the wisdom to understand and face all the perplexities in this world with a heart of submission and trust. God's will can be expounded in the following 4 levels.
1. God's Eternal Will
Here is His sovereign will that is not bounded by time and space, is true and stands fast forever. Here is the unity of God's sovereignty and incomprehensible wisdom which brings us to worship. This is the highest level and is our ultimate resting place. It is on this level that Jesus Christ, in the lowest time of His ministry, looked up to heaven with joy, praised God and said, "Father, this is Your good pleasure." Jesus praised the Father for His predestination for His chosen ones.
2. God's Calling
In 6 billion people of the world today (more if you look at entire history) created in the image of God, there is a small number who are living in the center of God's will. These people live their lives to the fullest with because they have the right understanding of God's eternal will. They reflect God's Truth and righteousness and love in their lives. They fulfill God's calling and we call them the light of the world, the salt of the earth. Through their lives, we see God Himself. This is the best earthly life one can live.
3. God's Chastisement
At this level are those of God's elect which God allows to stray but He will chastise them and brings back to repentance in His own time. So here we will see a mixture of people who at certain times follow God, at certain times backslide so terribly. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether they are believers or not. Many of them live great part of their lives straying and wasting their lives, so end up like those who are saved but just barely escapes the fire, with nothing to show God as everything gets burnt up. Unfortunately majority of believers live in this level rather than the previous level. How few are the faithful ones! This phenomena stumbles a lot of people and makes Christianity look like a hypocrisy and therefore becomes a mockery in the eyes of the world. Many people give up seeking the Truth at this point. But true seekers of the Truth would not be stopped by such grievious things, but will press on seeking the Truth till they can find rest in their souls.
4. God's Judgement
At this last level are the people whom God gives up to their own will and desires and therefore they reap their own destruction. Many people are destroyed in their prosperity because their spiritual senses become more and more dull and they no longer ever find themselves in situation where they can repent. A lot of people wonder why injustices happen and why the wicked seem to prosper, and conclude that God doesn't care and is unjust. They don't realize that that this temporal phenomena is a scary indication that perhaps, He would never bring them to repentance but will allow their hearts to harden. This is the manifestation of God's judgment which is effectual but often hidden from our eyes. God's judgment is a great deep and should bring great fear in our hearts.
So this child can learn that whenever he sees good and bad things, which level of God's will is being revealed. The proud will be stumbled but the humble ones will learn wisdom.
Level 2,3,4 ultimately points to 1 => God's eternal will. In all the phenomena, we see the display of all His attributes. He is glorified in the manifestation of His mercy, patience and justice in Truth. The world is indeed ripening for the harvest, the light getting brighter and the darkness getting darker... the former towards the full realization of God's salvation, and the latter towards the full consummation of God's wrath.
Forum Question:
This child posted me a question when I shared God' love with him. Pls advise how should I reply.
"what has god done for me why should i care about him? he keeps screwing my life up, my life is a compleat shit hole because of him he does me no good he keeps sending bad things my way. and even if he isnnt giving me all the bad stuff in my life then why isnt he stopping it? god has a master plan for me eh? well then how is that giving us free will? huh? explain that to me.
god he is a bastard who doesnt care for me thats why i gave up on him a long time ago. thats why im burning this bible i will sen you some good pics of the buring peice of shit that should have never been printed ever! i mean ever! it does noting but brain wash the gulible masses. its just a way to keep us out of trouble. how can you honestly belive in this man. well? can you give me any answerrs to my questions or are you just going to keep telling me that he loves me and that im rebelling against him? could you please tell me why god cares about us? there are so many people in this world he seams to be far more interested with famous people giving them all they need why cant he just clear the unnoticed peoples lives up a bit? well when you have answers to my questions please feel free to email me back."
My Reply:
Hopefully this frustrated child will learn to ask questions about God in a more reverent way. I will not assume much on his motivation and condition because I don't know him personally so I will just try to address the issues he raised.
Basically human confusion comes because we have no wisdom to link all the phenomena we see in this world. We have a concept of love, goodness, justice, basically, perfection... but it is a world full of injustice and predicament. And being human with personality, we also feel affected by the things that affect us directly and often times see things in isolation. "Why is my life so terrible? Why didn't God stop it since He can?" "Why is the rich and greedy having all they want and I'm struggling this way?" and leading on to, "Does God care?!" so "Please give me an answer to all these perplexities and don't just avoid the difficulties and say I am rebelling against Him!"
Ultimately, phenomena (things that happen/facts we observe) in their totality are just reflection of the Eternal Truth. It's just a matter of whether we have the wisdom to see the meaning behind them or not. If we can see, we encounter and enjoy the Truth. If we cannot see, things are broken up in pieces and perplexing to us. Understanding God's Will gives us the wisdom to understand and face all the perplexities in this world with a heart of submission and trust. God's will can be expounded in the following 4 levels.
1. God's Eternal Will
Here is His sovereign will that is not bounded by time and space, is true and stands fast forever. Here is the unity of God's sovereignty and incomprehensible wisdom which brings us to worship. This is the highest level and is our ultimate resting place. It is on this level that Jesus Christ, in the lowest time of His ministry, looked up to heaven with joy, praised God and said, "Father, this is Your good pleasure." Jesus praised the Father for His predestination for His chosen ones.
2. God's Calling
In 6 billion people of the world today (more if you look at entire history) created in the image of God, there is a small number who are living in the center of God's will. These people live their lives to the fullest with because they have the right understanding of God's eternal will. They reflect God's Truth and righteousness and love in their lives. They fulfill God's calling and we call them the light of the world, the salt of the earth. Through their lives, we see God Himself. This is the best earthly life one can live.
3. God's Chastisement
At this level are those of God's elect which God allows to stray but He will chastise them and brings back to repentance in His own time. So here we will see a mixture of people who at certain times follow God, at certain times backslide so terribly. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether they are believers or not. Many of them live great part of their lives straying and wasting their lives, so end up like those who are saved but just barely escapes the fire, with nothing to show God as everything gets burnt up. Unfortunately majority of believers live in this level rather than the previous level. How few are the faithful ones! This phenomena stumbles a lot of people and makes Christianity look like a hypocrisy and therefore becomes a mockery in the eyes of the world. Many people give up seeking the Truth at this point. But true seekers of the Truth would not be stopped by such grievious things, but will press on seeking the Truth till they can find rest in their souls.
4. God's Judgement
At this last level are the people whom God gives up to their own will and desires and therefore they reap their own destruction. Many people are destroyed in their prosperity because their spiritual senses become more and more dull and they no longer ever find themselves in situation where they can repent. A lot of people wonder why injustices happen and why the wicked seem to prosper, and conclude that God doesn't care and is unjust. They don't realize that that this temporal phenomena is a scary indication that perhaps, He would never bring them to repentance but will allow their hearts to harden. This is the manifestation of God's judgment which is effectual but often hidden from our eyes. God's judgment is a great deep and should bring great fear in our hearts.
So this child can learn that whenever he sees good and bad things, which level of God's will is being revealed. The proud will be stumbled but the humble ones will learn wisdom.
Level 2,3,4 ultimately points to 1 => God's eternal will. In all the phenomena, we see the display of all His attributes. He is glorified in the manifestation of His mercy, patience and justice in Truth. The world is indeed ripening for the harvest, the light getting brighter and the darkness getting darker... the former towards the full realization of God's salvation, and the latter towards the full consummation of God's wrath.
posted by Mejlina Tjoa @ 12:04 AM
14 comments
14 Comments:
This might be one way you can respond directly to the child. - Your GPP, Charles.
Dear poor child,
It seems that you treat yourself badly because you think God has dropped you off. If you really believe there is an ultimate power up there, you shouldn't anyhow scold Him like the way you do to people. You are very brave in this respect. On the other hand, if you don't believe that He exists, why do you complain and involve Him? It is common that when a person feels down, he tries to put the blame on someone else and usually God is the one getting all the curse because we are so lost in this material world. I am not sure if you realize that many rich people feel very empty in their lives afer possessing so many assets.
However, success or failure is a relative thing in this material world, which is largely dependent on how we look at it. For example, people living in third world countries may regard you as a very successful and lucky boy. In fact, God does not lack any glory from us because He is all-sufficient and is not standing in need of any creatures which He has made. He wants us to worship Him for our own sake because He knows our weaknesses and problems. Regarding whether we win or lose in this world is a tiny issue compared to His eternal will.
Anyway, you need to catch more life experience particularly in your understanding of the meaning of winning or losing. Usually suffering makes us learn things quicker so it is not a bad thing, but a good start for young people to have such a taste in life. I wish you all the best next time.
Thanks. A right foundation coupled with deep life experiences make you a good helper to many. I believe I will always be learning things from you. - GD.
Have you read the books by Philip Yancey - Disappointment with God, Where is God when it hurts
May find some insight
Oh yeah... I heard of that book a lot and quite a few of my friends have read it but I haven't had chance to read yet. I do read his other book on the Jesus I Never Knew many years back & I remember I found it quite insightful. He is a writer who expresses things with head and heart. Regarding sufferings, I think in this life there's always a realm we can never comprehend as God is just infinite beyond our undersanding. Below this realm, I think there are plenty of things God allows us to learn and understand regarding the meaning, purpose and nature of sufferings. But both the known and unknown realm reflects the Almighty God's glory and can bring us to proper understanding of our humanity.
I read this today, and may be that boy can learn something from this boy on hurricane Katrina - Quote
God Has a Reason
by Ryan MacDonald
Age 11
In times of sadness and cruelty,
God has a reason.
When the most horrid disaster dwells upon the land,
God has a reason.
The things that one would think would tear us apart,
Pull us into a brotherhood with God.
A shadow has fallen upon this nation
Only to be reshaped by love and hope.
Hearts have been broken from this storm,
And yet -- like a rose --
The thorn is sharp, but the velvet red petals are magnificent.
When this black hood of sorrow is lifted from our heads,
We will have learned.
We will have been changed by the Lord to love one another,
To help each other at any cost,
Whether the cost is life or death.
Blood has been shed.
Tears have dripped.
Now it's your turn to make a difference.
God has a reason.
***********************************************************
So Ryan set out to make his own difference as best he could. He set up a brownie and lemonade stand. In spite of the questionable wisdom of this odd taste combination, he raised $274 for relief. That doesn't seem like a lot, but it's a lot for an eleven-year-old and I bet God turned it into gold.
hi, so sorry i must use my indon for this =P
Kasus ini kdg terjadi, dan seringkali, kelemahan kita adalah kita mengetahui banyak hal, dan belajar dari kasus ayub, kita lebih sering menjadi teman2 ayub, ketimbang menjadi Jesus yang ikut menangis bersama maria martha kala LAzarus meninggal...
mgk aku ga tahu apa yg terjadi dengan anak itu, tetapi yang bisa aku usulkan, bukan theori theologi ttg Tuhan atau ttg kasihNya.. tapi justru kita harus menunjukan Tuhan dan memberikan kasih kepada anak itu..
Biarlah anak itu sendiri yang melihat dan menikmati Tuhan dan kasih dalam hidupnya, melalui kita..
kalau anak itu jujur, aku simpati dengannya, imannya mungkin sama dengan kisah seorang bapak di markus 9:14-32...
.... Segera ayah anak itu berteriak: "Aku percaya. Tolonglah aku yang tidak percaya ini!...
Hi P,
Orang yang sama dengan Prasto ya? :) Thanks buat komentarnya. Gua setuju same elo sih tentang cara menghadapi anak itu.
Tapi tujuan gua nulis ini bukan untuk jawab anak itu langsung, gua kan juga ngak tau dia tuh siapa. Ngak mungkin lah menjawab anak itu lewat blog ginian. Ini lebih untuk kita-kita untuk merenungkan kehendak Allah dan tangan Allah dalam dunia yang penuh kesulitan ini. Tuh udah gua tulis di paragraf introduksi di paling atas kan?
"This is not meant to answer the kid directly since he is a stranger to me and it is another stranger who asked the question on how to help this kid. My reply is more to give a perspective of things in general."
Yang sepatutnya direnungkan, perlu direnungkan.. kita nga bisa gantikan dengan tindakan. Yang sepatutnya dilakukan, perlu dilakukan, kita nga bisa gantikan dengan renungan. Sebagai murid Kristus, kita mempunyai tanggung jawab dalam dua aspek renungan maupun tindakan dihadapan Allah. Blog ini untuk renungan... hidup sehari2 untuk tindakan. Kalo ketemu anak itu, gua ngak bakal khotbahin kaya gini koq.:)
me again =)
sorry, still 8pm in france =P
ok, admit kalo ignore intromu =P maybe postmu bukan buat reply anak itu...
but now i am pondering on this,
- Nazi's Holocaust
- Jakarta 98
- 9/11
where you want to put God's will on those issues?
France? Hey, are you the same Pras, an Indonesian, who is my ex-college mate?
I will put that under the mystery of God's will. There are sufferings we can understand and there are those we can't. But both will bring us to a deeper knowing of God if we would learn to submit to Him. Look above, my comment just before Dan's comment addressed this realm.
hehehe =P finally you recognise me!! =P
then i shall assume, those case cannot be classed in one your 4 God's will?? =P
btw aku jg uda baca buku philip yancey... quite a lot of them.. n cukup terpengaruh juga..
dan aku agree dg ur comment that there is area of sufferings which is beyond human understanding.. I clasify that as mistery as well, that requires respons, rather than an answer...
yet, i notice, many of us, christian, too often and without realising it, trying to be god himself, or to protect God and to explain what God Himself keeps silent... =( many of us become Job's friend... =(
i just imagine that i cry with the victims of those unexplainable events... yet i believe, Jesus does cry with them too..
Dasar! Pertama kali liat nama itu gua uda mikir ini Pras kali, tapi karena elo nih ngak perkenalkan diri dan sok asing cara ngomongnya, gua jadi sangsi. Mau gua gaplok kali... :P Tapi kalaupun gua tau ini elu, jawaban gua juga kira2 gitulah...
Gua pikir elo protestan, uda jadi katolik? :)
Yeah you can say it's not in one of those 4 levels. But in a way, yes... since the first level is God's eternal will. But His eternal will has its element of mystery, which is unknown and incomprehensible to us... like the Fall which He allowed. The Fall is the origin from which all other sufferings began, including those you asked me about. If any questions of sufferings at all, in the end it boils back to the question of why the Fall is allowed to happen at all.
I'm not even sure if it is appropriate to use this word 'allow', save the fact that it tells you He is sovereign over it, but it becomes not very appropriate if the word 'allow' contains the idea of consenting with a willing heart. Firstly our understanding is limited, and next our expression of our understanding is another limitation... which makes proper communication not easy thing.
hahahha.... asing dimananya ngomongnya... =P
for being Catholics, i dunno whether you follow The Apostles' Creed, yg harusnya jd panduan iman reformasi =D
....
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy *catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
....
nah.. so i am walking into that destination... being catholic hihihih....
(dun ask me the asterik sign, ga seru =p)
lagian, masak krn aku sering ngomong katholik di nilai katholik nih... lain kali aku pake sudut pandang islam aja deh..
========================
go back to the controversial 'allow'.. aku baca bukunya CS lewis (forget judulnya), ttg suffering juga...
cukup terpengaruh nih... aku rasa emang pemakaian kata 'allow' itu cukup dilematis... and the usage of allow itself, is following human thinking...
kalo sesuatu terjadi, pasti itu terjadi krn dikehendaki, atau diijinkan... oleh siapa? ya harus ada deh pelakunya... dan dalam kasus the Fall, we 'suspect' God as the 'culprit'... hm... then, even though we seem to protect God, i think we have put Him in the judgement already hahahaha....
i tend to think, yes, The Fall was there, God was there, and He is soveriegn. but i have no idea how to relate. again, learning from Job's case, the God i worship is a little bit 'strange'.. Job asked A, God answered B... but in the end, it constructs the theology and the fact that we are unable to comprehend God.. and i admit that..
so, maybe i just let God be God.. i neither blame Him, nor protect His goodness.. maybe someday he will be willing to explain, if He has time.. =P
and lastly, reading the story of Fall, since God never explain whether He planned the Fall, or He allowed the fall, or He was unable to avoid the fall, i won;t bother that much... but one think i do know, that after the Fall, He sought the fallen human... and perhaps, He is looking for the 'funny child who is angry with God' in your post =)
that's the one i want to keep from the story =P
* am i too ignorant? *
Sok asing in your silence of not introducing yourself. :P
No, not ignorant. I agree very much with you here. The secret things belong to God and the revealed things belong to us so that we might obey Him. Exactly I also see all the stuffs are there and yet there remains still a mystery we cannot fully reconcile with our human mind. I always tell my friends that this fact of mystery is in itself God's revelation of Himself... the infinite nature of the Truth and the finite nature of humans. Pretty paradoxical yeah, mystery itself is a revelation. It implies of how we should relate to the Almighty.
Regarding the term 'catholic' I agree very much that the Church is catholic. Cuman aja karena term ini sering by default dipakai untuk satu divisi romanism aja, kita sering pikir kalo lu bilang lu katolik berarti ikut roma...
In essence, catholic means one, so NO sect/denomination/division should monopolize that term for themselves. Again, we can't tell for sure who are true Christians and who are not & can at best imply from external things we see, but from God's point of view who sees right at the inward state of our spirit, He knows who are His Children, and He does see the Church as One.
Ngomong satu lingkaran, keliatannya sih foundation wise, pandangan kita sama lah. :)
ok, ngalah deh...
peace, peace...
yeah, i think we are in the same circle hahaha...
ok, let me wait for ur next post then... =)
God Bless =)
Post a Comment
<< Home